| Kahawai
into the Quota Management System
Parliamentary Discussion – Oral Questions
31
August 2004
This uncorrected transcript
of the debate in Parliament regarding the Minister's decision to
introduce kahawai into the Quota Management System is available
at
https://uncorrectedtranscripts.clerk.govt.nz/
6. LARRY BALDOCK
(United Future) to the Minister of Fisheries :
Does the Government intend to follow through on its decision to
introduce kahawai, known as "the people's fish", into the quota
management system with commercial catch quotas set at a level that
enables large-scale purse seine fishers to target entire schools
of this species; if so, why?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
(Minister of Fisheries) : If the member means do I intend
to go back on the decision gazetted in October 2003 to introduce
kahawai into the quota management system, then the answer is no.
Larry Baldock :
Is the Government prepared to enter into negotiation with the relevant
commercial fishing companies engaged in targeting kahawai with purse
seine fishing vessels, in order to ensure there will be sufficient
kahawai for both commercial by-catch requirements and non-commercial,
recreational interests; if not, why not?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: The decision that has been announced has clearly not
given purse seine fishers any advantage in terms of the way that
catch limits are set. In fact, the total allowable commercial catch
has been set at a level that is significantly less than the tonnage
that purse seine fishers alone are able to catch under the current
permit regime.
Mr SPEAKER :
I call Russell Fairbrother. I was advised by the Minister that the
answer to this question will be a little longer than usual.
Russell Fairbrother
: Why is kahawai being introduced into the quota management
system?
Rt Hon Winston Peters
: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. How can you possibly
know that the answer will take a terribly long time, without knowing
what the supplementary question is? I thought the interest of the
public lay in our having some sort of debate in this House that
actually meant something, and wherein people responded as a result
of information they might have previously heard. For you to know
that the answer will be long means that-well, I cannot use the word,
but there is an inference. If you were to warn us, as you did, that
the answer to this question would be somewhat longer, surely that
suggests some sort of prior knowledge. I want to say, in the interests
of defending you, that that must be a mistake, or that there is
some other explanation, or that you are clairvoyant.
Mr SPEAKER :
I had no knowledge of the question itself, but the Minister rang
me and said he was likely to be asked a question that required a
longer answer than usual-and I like to advise the House of that.
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: If kahawai is not introduced into the quota management
system on 1 October 2004, it will not be managed in order to ensure
sustainability. The fisheries permit moratorium will expire on that
date, and if kahawai were not in the quota management system, any
commercial fishers would be able to target kahawai by any method.
There would be no commercial catch limit, and recreational fishers
would not have defined shares in the fishery. It is that lack of
limits and control that led to the decision to introduce kahawai
into the world-leading quota management system, to ensure that New
Zealanders can catch that species in the future.
Phil Heatley :
Why is the Minister favouring such commercial fishing companies
at the significant expense of recreational fishers, when his own
election policy says that Labour recognises the value of recreational
fishing to New Zealand's tourism industry-that a kahawai caught
by an overseas visitor, and cooked or smoked by the host, might
be worth 10 times more to the economy than one caught commercially?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: I am delighted that the questioner has such good knowledge
of Labour's policy. I can confirm that recognition of the importance
of kahawai-the so-called "people's fish"-is what has led to the
setting of the combined recreational and customary allowable catch
at one and a half times the total allowable commercial catch. Indeed,
in kahawai area 1, the area from North Cape to East Cape-with which
Mr Heatley, I hope, is very familiar-where there is the greatest
concentration of recreational fishing, the combined customary and
recreational allowable catch is set at twice the allowable commercial
catch.
Rt Hon Winston Peters
: Is the Minister aware that Mr Heatley told the recreational
fishing conference at Onerahi a couple of months ago that National
supported kahawai going into the quota management system; and is
he aware that United Future made no reference to this matter in
its 2002 policy, or-
Mr SPEAKER :
So far, the member has not addressed any question for which the
Minister-
Rt Hon Winston Peters
: I am getting to it.
Mr SPEAKER :
-please be seated-has responsibility. Would he come to that point
now.
Rt Hon Winston Peters
: Is he aware that United Future made no reference to this
matter in its 2002 policy, and that this matter is absent from the
Government's coalition arrangement with United Future; what confusion
has he been left in with regard to the varying positions of those
two parties-or are they just the bunch of "lay-down Sallies" that
we know they are?
Mr SPEAKER :
No. The only point the Minister can answer is in relation to the
coalition agreement.
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: I am not aware of the statement that was attributed to
Mr Heatley, but I am not surprised by anything he or the National
Party say on this matter.
Jeanette Fitzsimons
: Does the Minister agree that kahawai has greater value
to New Zealanders as a recreational species rather than a commercial
species, and should therefore be managed as such; if so, what mechanisms
are available under the Fisheries Act 1996 to provide quota for
unavoidable commercial by-catch, but not for purse seine fishers
targeting kahawai?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: I am confident that the quota management system appropriately
balances conflicting expectations, and I am of the view that voluntary
agreements about the inshore kahawai fishery, such as those that
exist in the Hawke's Bay and elsewhere, are highly desirable. Further,
I am certainly very willing to investigate other management tools,
and the importance I put on kahawai as a recreational resource is
clear in the quota settings that I detailed earlier.
Larry Baldock :
Does the Minister understand that if he set the recreational limit
at 10,000 tonnes, it would make no difference to the recreational
fisherman if he is unable to find any kahawai because the purse-seiners
have already gone out and scooped up their allocation before the
recreational fisher has had a chance to catch his?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: In making decisions on catch limits, I have to take into
account the uncertainty and lack of data available on the status
of the kahawai stocks. As such, my decisions are cautious and conservative.
Should evidence become available suggesting that an even more cautious
approach is necessary, I am certainly willing to reduce the catch
limits in due course, and to implement other management tools to
ensure sustainability.
Larry Baldock :
Did the Minister seek advice from officials on how the recreational
catch would be restrained by 15 percent-as per their advice-or did
he already understand that to actually achieve a 15 percent reduction
in the recreational catch would involve reducing bag limits on kahawai
from the current 20 to approximately four, given that the majority
of recreational fishers have been unable to find more than two or
three for some time?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: I am not sure there will be any need to constrain bag
limits, but let me stress to the member that the extensive and vigorous
statutory consultation process leading to the introduction of kahawai
into the quota management system began in November 2001. At that
time, all submissions supported the introduction of kahawai into
the quota management system, and that led to the gazetting in October
2003 of the decision I referred to. Consultation on catch limits
was lengthy and participation vigorous. Unfortunately, Mr Baldock's
Supplementary Order Paper on the bill currently before the House
overturns the statutory process, and cuts across the principle of
natural justice, which is served through such extensive consultation.
Larry Baldock :
Can the Minister confirm to this House that he had any negotiations
with recreational fishing interests after the submission process
had been completed, and he had received advice from ministry officials;
or is it true that he had no contact with those interests at all,
regardless of the fact that they represent 300,000 to 400,000 New
Zealanders?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE
: I think it is important to stress that the statutory
consultation process is just that, with initial position papers
and final position papers. It would be most inappropriate to have
discussions with individual parties outside that process. But I
can assure the questioner that, certainly, in the wider public context,
such as at the annual general meeting of the recreational fishers,
those matters were raised.
Rt Hon Winston Peters
: I seek leave to table the record of the recreational
fishing conference at Onerahi a few weeks ago, at which Mr Heatley
promised that if he were the Minister he would put-that it was National
Party policy to put-kahawai in the quota management system.
Document, by leave, laid
on the Table of the House.
Phil Heatley :
I seek leave to table the Labour Party recreational fishing policy
stating that kahawai is worth 10 times more as a recreational fish
than it is worth commercially.
Document, by leave, laid
on the Table of the House.
|
