Venue: Auckland Regional Council chambers, Auckland City

Date: Wednesday 17 th September 2003

Chair: Laly Haddon, Tangata Whenua

Duration: 2.5 hours

Attendance: 36 people, including 16 Forum members

Forum Business

Item A.1 Minutes of previous meeting held on 18 th June 2003 passed.

Item B.1 Hauraki Gulf Forum annual report presented by Alan Moore, ARC

Item B.2 State of the Hauraki Gulf Forum presented by Alan Moore, ARC.

Resolved - That the members of the Forum are encouraged to assist, as necessary, in ensuring that staff resources from their organisation are available for the production of the State of the Hauraki Gulf Report.

Item B.3 Foreshore and seabed issue, a Tangata whenua perspective presented by Keir Volkerkig, Ngatiwai.

• Lack of good information available
• Discussed report with Forum, noted the report was written several weeks ago and other information has become available since then
• Not a treaty issue, it's a rights protection issue
• More information avail on www.tokm.co.nz website
• History avail in books by Henry Reynolds, one title is "Law of the Land"
• Need for a debate about the meaning about what customary rights are
• Until foreshore & seabed issues are resolved we need to be cautious on how we proceed so as not to overrun current issues and create more problems
• Not a treaty issue until there are decisions made that would breach the treaty, create a grievance

Resolved - That the forum members resolve not to take actions that will exacerbate any current Treaty grievance, or that will create new grievances

Item B.4 Tangata whenua of Tikapa Moana and Te Moananui O Toi: Establishing a baseline of government information by Maru Samuels

• Questionnaire for representatives of councils/ bodies to take back to their organisations to fill out and return next meeting
• Questions relate to those organisations relationship with tangata whenua and structures, procedures to deal with tangata whenua
• Technical officers working group will collate information and report back to Forum in early 2004.
• Hand out on Deed of Recognition of statement of relationship

Resolved - That the Forum be presented with a report of the results of the survey at its December 2003 meeting.

Item B.5 Strategy for the protection of marine biodiversity in the Hauraki Gulf presented by Rob McCallum, Department of Conservation (DoC) Conservator

• First two items of Forum meeting were concerned with ownership, this report is about management
• Regardless of ownership, DoC are charged with managing and protecting biodiversity
• Concerns have been raised regarding the ad hoc nature of marine reserve creation, lack of strategic approach to marine reserve proposals, and concerns raised around public consultation
• This strategy discusses process - DoC want to talk to people about how they want biodiversity protected
• DoC will be taking the lead role, Ministry of Fisheries will be working very closely in support, other agencies will be involved, not excluding anyone by not naming them in their report

Councillor Vernon - question on how DoC plan to consult and the when the consultation will begin

Rob MacCallum - this is just advance warning, the first step in the process. DoC are putting together an inventory of who they should be consulting with. DoC want to engage with the public in the pre-design phase, want to start ASAP after approval from the Forum

Councillor Storer - marine reserves have a big impact on local population, particularly in areas such as Great Barrier Island . Marine reserves wont stop overfishing by commercial fishers. How are DoC working with the Ministry of Fisheries to stop overfishing when biodiversity is the issue for DoC. People can't afford to buy fish.

RM - There are 8000 known species in our seas with more being discovered. Fishers, both commercial and recreational concerned with about 100 of those species. DoC has strong links with the Ministry of Fisheries. The first step in marine reserve process is to consider who will be most affected, usually this is fishers so DoC consult with Ministry of Fisheries first.

Councillor Storer - Marine reserves deal with biodiversity concerns, but they are not fair on the people of coastal communities where marine reserves impact unduly on the locals. The issue of dealing with commercial fishing is not being addressed.

RM - DoC have talked to many people and the four things that are most commonly mentioned that people want is - commercial fisheries so they can buy fish locally, and have a sustainable export fishery, recreational fishing, marine reserves in special places and the threats to the marine environment

Councillor Burrill - are there other tools apart from marine reserves that can be used to protect the marine environment?

RM - there are tools such as taiapure, mataitai, fishing restrictions and methods. No take marine reserves are powerful tools to protect biodiversity.

Councillor Burrill - does the Minister of Conservation have legal authority to use any tool other than marine reserves?

MFish - the Minister of Conservation can manage some areas of the foreshore under the Reserves Act and Wildlife Act. Their primary tool is marine reserves.

RM - DoC has supplied an information pack for Forum members to take away with them.

Item B.6 A strategic approach to eth establishment of marine protected areas presented by Matthew Paterson, Auckland City Council.

• Need to identify what habitats are in Gulf, what needs to be protected, need to include the public in discussions, raise public awareness and encourage public inclusion in the consultation process with DoC and Ministry of Fisheries
• Focus community efforts on sites identified
• This report is a result of consultation with public when ACC were developing plans to propose a marine reserve for Noises
• ACC decided a strategic approach is required to marine protection and this backed up with scientific evidence to support any proposal.

Councillor Storer - ACC have held meetings with DoC and the Great Barrier Island community board. ACC and the public have been asking for an organised approach to marine protection for some time.

Councillor Burrill - Some concern about how coordinated the strategic approach will be considering there are two items on the agenda, one from DoC and the other from ACC on same topic.

Matthew Paterson - ACC have met with DoC and Ministry of Fisheries. The ACC report was circulated to both groups. ACC were not aware DoC would be tabling their strategic approach report to the Forum meeting.

Resolved - That the Forum members support and assist DoC and the Ministry of Fisheries in the development of an overall strategic plan for the protection of marine biodiversity within the Hauraki Gulf marine park.

Betty Williams , Tangata whenua representative - the marine reserve legislation doesn't recognise customary rights in the current Act or the new (proposed) Marine Reserves Bill. Customary rights have been overlooked for other reasons including economic, education and other benefits.

Councillor Storer - ACC want an active role in strategic approach, don't want to be just commenting on DoC or Ministry of Fisheries papers on the subject.

Item B.7 Review of Auckland region shellfish issues by Richard Fanselow, Ministry of Fisheries.

• Ministry of Fisheries is directly responsible for shellfish harvesting control
• Minister of Fisheries asked the Ministry to look at the shellfish issue in Auckland region relating to limits, and if harvest controls were adequate
• Cheltenham and Eastern beaches are closed to shellfish harvesting
• Ministry looked at additional areas that are coming under increased pressure, what species were under threat. Had not reached the stage of looking at the need to revise harvest limits yet.
• Information will be gathered from local HFO's initially
• Compliance team are increasing resources in enforcement and education. More support staff will be provided for HFO's.
• Ministry want to increase the number of signs around the region to address the problem of the lack of public awareness of harvest limits

Resolved - That the Forum support the review of shellfish issues in the Auckland region including the Haruaki Gulf . As part of an overall shellfish/ public information strategy, that the Forum's constituent parties take a cooperative approach with MFish to put in place appropriate information signs on fish and shellfish harvesting controls.

Item C.1 Findings of Stage 1 Review of current state of knowledge: Hauraki Gulf localised shellfish depletion project by Dominic McCarthy, ARC.

• Studied localised shellfish depletion in intertidal zone of cockles, pipis, tuatua and wedge shells
• Compiling a bibliography of research findings , an electronic copy will be available to interested parties when completed
• No obvious single issue can be blamed for depletion of the intertidal zone species
• Keen to see what comes out of second stage of process
• It is possible that sediment run-off will prove to be a key concern
• Anti fouling from boats is a concern but this is more of a localised issue
• Outcome from second stage will give direction and allow MFish to advise on the cause and affects of each aspect.
• Information on invasive species is being compiled

Open Forum - Trish Rea from option4 addressed the Forum on the Planning Right - option4 Principle # 3.

• option4 want the ability to devise plans to ensure future generations enjoy the same or better quality of rights while preventing fish conserved for recreational use being given to the commercial sector.
• This planning right is complimentary to Maori customary management rights and mechanisms. Those rights are area based, the option4 planning right is fisheries focussed.
• If successful, the planning right will provide for future generations and a more productive and healthier marine environment.

Recommendation

The Open Forum is conducted at the end of Forum business. On the two occasions we have attended the Forum the open session has been more than two hours after the start of the meeting. Of the 16 Forum members in attendance at this meeting only 8 were left by the time the public had the opportunity to speak. One member of the public spoke to the Forum members on this occasion, Trish Rea from option4. It would be far better if the Open Forum was held at the beginning of the meeting so the Forum members have the opportunity to hear what the public have to say. The Auckland Conservation Board follow this format and it works successfully for the public speakers and the Board.

To read the address from option4 to the Forum go here

www.option4.co.nz/hgfa0903.htm

Meeting closed: 3.40pm

Next meeting: Wednesday 10 th December 2003.

October 29 th 2003

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you again today.

option4 have spoken to the Board three times this year with the intention of informing you of what the public are saying regarding marine reserves and marine protection in general. As an independent body representing community interests in their rights to fish for food and marine protection it is only fair we make this effort to share with you what feedback we are getting.

Great Barrier Island marine reserve

I note with interest the comment in the unconfirmed minutes of the August Board meeting that the analysis of the submissions would be available to the public by the end of September. I understand this has been delayed and would like some indication of when the analysis will be available. There is a huge amount of interest in this proposal and in particular the process undertaken by DoC to gather support for the reserve, the process and basis of their analysis of the public feedback.

Public Meetings

Also noted is the comment that the ‘Drop In' meeting held at the Marine Rescue Centre was “ in effect a public meeting”. In no way can that meeting be considered a public meeting in consultation terms. If we look at the definition on effective consultation in the Court of Appeal decision arising from the case between International Airport Ltd and Air New Zealand (CA 23/92, 73/92[1993] 1 NZLR 671). The relevant section of the decision is as follows:

‘Consultation must allow sufficient time, and a genuine effort must be made. It is a reality not a charade. To consult is not merely to tell or present. Nor, at the other extreme is it to agree. Consultation does not necessarily involve negotiation towards an agreement, although the latter not uncommonly can follow, as the tendency in consultation is to seek at least consensus. Consultation is an intermediate situation involving meaningful discussion. Despite its somewhat impromptu nature I cannot improve on the attempt at description, which I made in West Coast United Council v Prebble at p. 405:

‘Consulting involves the statement of a proposal not yet fully decided upon, listening to what others have to say, considering their responses and then deciding what will be done.'

Implicit in the concept is a requirement that the party consulted will be (or will be made) adequately informed so as to be able to make intelligent and useful responses. It is also implicit that the party obliged to consult, while quite entitled to have working plan in mind, must keep its mind open and be ready to change and even start afresh. Beyond that, there are no universal requirements as to form. Any matter of oral or written interchange which allows adequate expression and consideration of views will suffice. Nor is there any universal requirement as to duration. In some situations adequate consultation could take place in one telephone call. In other contexts it might require years of formal meetings. Generalities are not helpful.'

While the Department may consider their obligations to consult less due to the non – statutory phase of the Great Barrier Island marine reserve proposal option4 consider any attempts at consultation should at least meet the requirements of the above legal definition. It is also very important to note that the statutory phase of the marine reserve establishment process does not include consultation with the wider public. For many, what consultation will occur has occurred. We remain firm in our opinion that the Department's efforts to inform the public of their opportunities to be consulted were inadequate.

‘Drop In' Meetings

At the 'Drop In' meetings the public were offered the opportunity to talk to staff on a one-on-one basis and have their opinions recorded. Where have those opinions been recorded and would the Board have access to the records? option4 would like to have a copy of those opinions for our records with any obvious personal information removed.

Marine Reserves

It was very encouraging to listen to the Conservator, Rob McCallum address the Hauraki Gulf Forum on September 17 th and acknowledge the concerns raised regarding the ad hoc nature of marine reserve creation, the lack of strategic approach to marine reserve proposals and concerns around public consultation. The fact that DoC has decided to take a leading role in talking to all of those agencies and the public about how we want biodiversity protected is a great step forward and option4 want to be part of that process. There is a lot more that can be gained by a cooperative approach than any process we have been involved with to date. We look forward to being actively involved and using our networks to engage with the public in a meaningful and consultative manner.

Thank you for your time today

Trish Rea